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  • Quad Fins by Dirk de Lucidcustom

  • Discusión sobre tablas, velas, mástiles y todo el material relativo al windsurfing
Discusión sobre tablas, velas, mástiles y todo el material relativo al windsurfing
 #223821  por Jaume
 Noviembre 13, 2008, 6:48 pm
Hace poco hablábamos en este post de que en Maui estaban probando los Quad Fins.

Pues bien, parece ser que ya se les está pasando de moda los Twin Fins .. muy interesante la lectura y las fotos de la tabla Quad Fin de Kauli Seadi
I received this email from my friend Dirk from Lucid Custom and I'm happy to publish.

I 've always been trying to make a board that sails more like a surfboard instead of a windsurfboard "shorter turns, easier to go under the lip more speed of the top,...." The boards I made at Richard Green 's place worked really well for me in the bottom turn (you can always ask Glenn this), but in top turns I was always wrong in timing, came out with no speed,... anyway I always missed the next section because of my bad top turns.So my answer to this was to make something more like a surfboard.

Windsurf shapers tried the thruster set-up but there was still one fin (also too big) in the middle that gave a lot of drag. Then Kauli came out with the twin fin set-up, here we go something new, lets check it out!
I continued my research on surfboarddesign putting some more energy towards twinfins
Let’s look at a small part of the short board history. Shapers started with making shortboards with a single fin set-up, this was not working well enough and they came up with the idea of using 2 "smaller" fins. This already made a big improvement on the performance of the boards but there was still a lot of room for improvement.
In the early 80's shapers came up with the idea of a quadfin, but the first quad fins where very similar in feel to the twin fins and so the thruster setup -what gave a nicer balance between single and twin fin- took over. Quad fins where put aside, and only a few devoted shapers continued the research.
Recently a lot of shapers have reevaluated the quad design and are trying it out on modern shapes and designs.
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So mainly what are the strong points of a quad in comparison to a single or twin fin:

from Kimo Greene:
Why Do Quads Work Better?

Quads are way faster than standard thrusters or even twin fins. Most would think, how can they be faster with an extra fin…wouldn’t that create more drag? Actually, because both sets of fins are working together on the rail, there’s nothing to slow you down like the center fin of a thruster. Quads are a lot more efficient with speed.

Quads are much more responsive than twin fins or thrusters. The reason is that the fins are set further up the board which essentially puts the fins directly under your back foot. The end result is an ultra responsive board that goes where you want it to go and fast.

Four fins boast an extraordinary amount of holding power in larger surf. A large number of the world’s best big wave surfers use quads in giant surf at -- and Mavericks. Many of them claim that a quad fin board has better holding power and speed in giant surf. If it works well at --, imagine what it could do at your local beach break?

From Bruce Mckee:
1. A faster board with all turns having an added boost
2. More security taking a higher line, so pulling out of a close out section is easier, also running high and getting speed or sitting high and deep in the tube
3. also slamming a bottom turn without fear of spinning out "No more 'nursing' a turn"
4. Much more control in floaters
5. Drive of the top instead of a stall.
6. rail to rail turning
7. Also what you will notice when the waves are bigger (with the same small wave board) is that you will have absolutely no 'nursing' the board trough a high speed bottom turn
Anyway You will be slamming or putting all you weight into everything. Not because you need to, but because you can!
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For me this was enough info to convince me in trying out the quad fin setup instead of making boards that everybody was going to make, (this was about 3-4 years ago). So I called Alex Mussolini asked if he was interested in trying a few quad fins (at that time I was making his boards so it was easy to get him to try this out). I redesigned the outline (opposite from the trend of wider and rounder outlines), the bottom shape ( a little bit more v of the back,..) and the rocker, and off course instead of a single a quad fin setup.
He used it in Chili and loved, at the same time I made myself a couple of Quad fins and I was blown away with the result. The only thing that was left for me to do now is to get the twinfin master himself "Kauli" to try a quad fin out, so let's see what he thinks of his board.
For me it does all what is stated above (apart from the tube off course) and in terms of normal sailing I can add that it gets on a plane super fast, also very good upwind performance and even in choppy water I have no problems controlling the board "knowing that I only use 4'5 inch fins, about 11,4 cm in depth".
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Sacado del blog de MauiSurfReport
http://mauisurfreport.blogspot.com
 #223823  por Jaume
 Noviembre 13, 2008, 6:56 pm
Y aquí un comentario del shaper despues de haber hablado con kauli
Hi,
I got an update from Kauli and apart from the fact that the shape was completely different from what he is used to sail the comments were very good.
He especially liked the extra drive the fins give and the speed you have in the cut back.

Now to reply on Robin regarding choppy conditions. When I made my first quad fin, this was the main concern I had. Anyway 2 days ago we had some very windy fully overpowered 4.3 conditions and I had no problems what so ever to stay upwind, to plane and I did not even once have a spinout. The fins are positioned very close to the rail, so they keep good contact with the water.

On top of this I can play around with a lot more different fin positions (Both fins forward or backwards, or more distance in between fins), and this gives me a good setup in any type of condition.
The upwind performance of the quad setup is better than any other setup I have tried. Getting on a plane takes nothing.
If I would have to put a down side to this setup it would be the low end speed on a straight line "not on a wave, on the wave it just accelerates more and more".
The added V is because the quad fin setup performs better with a wider tail (otherwise the fins will come too close together and lose their effect), and so the V will help the transitioning in to the cutback.

Hope this helps, let me know.
 #223834  por Jose_CB
 Noviembre 13, 2008, 7:36 pm
Y en español?? cuales son las diferencias mas destacadas?
 #223836  por neira
 Noviembre 13, 2008, 7:54 pm
Precisamente este verano, estuve hablando con Bob Yates de TFC sobre los quads.

Tras varios minutos de charla, acabó asegurando que, hidrodinámicamente hablando, los quads no funcionan y no pueden funcionar. Algo de interferencias en el flujo o algo así.

Es un tema que me viene grande.
 #223880  por peligro
 Noviembre 13, 2008, 10:09 pm
Ya está inventada la hexa-fin, me han dicho que es la polla
Adjuntos
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 #223949  por neira
 Noviembre 14, 2008, 9:02 am
No cuela.
 #224015  por Witchcraft Fuerteventura
 Noviembre 14, 2008, 12:43 pm
Windsurf shapers tried the thruster set-up but there was still one fin (also too big) in the middle that gave a lot of drag.

Quads are way faster than standard thrusters or even twin fins. Most would think, how can they be faster with an extra fin…wouldn’t that create more drag? Actually, because both sets of fins are working together on the rail, there’s nothing to slow you down like the center fin of a thruster. Quads are a lot more efficient with speed.
No creo que es asi. Entonces tablas de velocidad deberian tener 2 o 4 quillas? Las tablas con 1 quilla frenan? Tablas de surf con 3 quillas frenan?
Quads are much more responsive than twin fins or thrusters. The reason is that the fins are set further up the board which essentially puts the fins directly under your back foot. The end result is an ultra responsive board that goes where you want it to go and fast.
Tampoco lo creo. No podrias poner otra(s) quilla(s) mas adelante y tener el mismo effecto?
Four fins boast an extraordinary amount of holding power in larger surf. A large number of the world’s best big wave surfers use quads in giant surf at -- and Mavericks. Many of them claim that a quad fin board has better holding power and speed in giant surf. If it works well at --, imagine what it could do at your local beach break?
Que tiene que ver -- con cualquier otra ola?
Última edición por Witchcraft Fuerteventura el Noviembre 15, 2008, 4:26 pm, editado 1 vez en total.
 #224120  por homer
 Noviembre 14, 2008, 8:06 pm
Yo no se si está hablando mierda, porque no tengo los conocimientos para opinar , pero es su opinion y debes respetarla.
Yo he oido hablar maravillas de las tablas que fabricas, pero tambien he visto las de Dirk y las han probado varios amigos míos y les han gustado mucho, en concreto esta de Kauli la estuvieron probando en Viana este año y les gusto.
Supongo que a ti no te gustaría que otra gente fuese hablando así de tus teorias sobre tablas, que no se puede decir que sean las mismas que las que tiene la mayoría de la gente.
 #224234  por Witchcraft Fuerteventura
 Noviembre 15, 2008, 12:22 pm
homer escribió:Yo no se si está hablando mierda, porque no tengo los conocimientos para opinar , pero es su opinion y debes respetarla.
Yo he oido hablar maravillas de las tablas que fabricas, pero tambien he visto las de Dirk y las han probado varios amigos míos y les han gustado mucho, en concreto esta de Kauli la estuvieron probando en Viana este año y les gusto.
Supongo que a ti no te gustaría que otra gente fuese hablando así de tus teorias sobre tablas, que no se puede decir que sean las mismas que las que tiene la mayoría de la gente.

Siempre se ve cuando hay algun "invento" nuevo, que algunas copian este idea y lo hacen mas extremo para parecer "innovador". Siempre hay algunas que lo llevan demasiado extremo. El effecto YoYo sobre que he escrito ya hace algunas años en el "(R)Evolucion de los Cantos, tambien publicado aqui en Totalwind.
Última edición por Witchcraft Fuerteventura el Noviembre 15, 2008, 4:27 pm, editado 1 vez en total.
 #224243  por homer
 Noviembre 15, 2008, 2:08 pm
No he criticado tus tablas, todo lo contrario tengo muy buenos informes y muchas ganas de probarlas, sólo he oido cosas buenas de ellas.

Pero si critico tu falta de respeto, si tienes un problema personal con el, no creo que aquí sea el lugar (pues no creo que lo lea), aquí nos gusta leer cosas sobre tablas, no trapos sucios, me gusta leer tus ideas sobre tablas pero no como te metes con las de otros.

Un saludo
 #224256  por Witchcraft Fuerteventura
 Noviembre 15, 2008, 4:31 pm
homer escribió:No he criticado tus tablas, todo lo contrario tengo muy buenos informes y muchas ganas de probarlas, sólo he oido cosas buenas de ellas.

Pero si critico tu falta de respeto, si tienes un problema personal con el, no creo que aquí sea el lugar (pues no creo que lo lea), aquí nos gusta leer cosas sobre tablas, no trapos sucios, me gusta leer tus ideas sobre tablas pero no como te metes con las de otros.

Un saludo
Tenes razon, lo he cambiado/quitado. Gente asi con pocas ideas propias se encontrara su mismo pronto o tarde.
 #224271  por ghonz
 Noviembre 15, 2008, 6:11 pm
Bueno, pues a ver si el post vuelve a ser sobre si son o no son válidas las quad fins... que estoy intrigado pos saber si todo aquellos que hoy en día hablamos maravillas de las twinzer (y ahi me incluyo) vamos a tener que desdecirnos y alabar las prestaciones de las quads.

[saludo]
 #224833  por iceman.ala12
 Noviembre 18, 2008, 1:26 pm
Esta da más el pegote.
Adjuntos
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 #224858  por peligro
 Noviembre 18, 2008, 3:15 pm
la podemos llamar --, y seguro que nos la meten........